you have the right to protest. no greek would deny you this. but there is legitimate protest and there's gratuitous violence...and i believe some of the 'protestors' are in themselves, getting off on the violence..not the protest..or even offering something to counter police brutality.

where is the political debate or discussion here? you can destroy a city..but what will you build in return?

i have marched at every Nov 17 march i've been able to in athens. i felt solidarity with all who uphold the right of safety and free speech/protest. i respect resistance when it knows what it is fighting against. this is democratic.

im finding it hard to trust the motives of a hand full of 'protestors' who have turned the 1 year memorial of Alexandros' murder..into an ugly and ignorant bout of 'fuck you'. rebels, quite literally, without a cause.

and they probably sneer at football hooligans as being 'apolitical' or 'stupid'.

so what's the difference?

Anonymous wrote:

 you have the right to protest. no greek would deny you this. but there is legitimate protest and there's gratuitous violence...and i believe some of the 'protestors' are in themselves, getting off on the violence..not the protest..or even offering something to counter police brutality.

where is the political debate or discussion here? you can destroy a city..but what will you build in return?

i have marched at every Nov 17 march i've been able to in athens. i felt solidarity with all who uphold the right of safety and free speech/protest. i respect resistance when it knows what it is fighting against. this is democratic.

im finding it hard to trust the motives of a hand full of 'protestors' who have turned the 1 year memorial of Alexandros' murder..into an ugly and ignorant bout of 'fuck you'. rebels, quite literally, without a cause.

and they probably sneer at football hooligans as being 'apolitical' or 'stupid'.

so what's the difference? 

But the violence isnt directed at an opposing football team, or just anyone or anything. But at a corrupt government, reactionary police, and the financial system that have created this crisis. Effective action aiming to change the status quo involves civil disobedience, occupations, strikes, blockades, riots. It will always be "illegitimate" as you put it, and change usually involves actions branded as violence.

I am often branded as a mindless and dangerous extremist by ignorant people, and the mainstream press - and my view that we should have a democratic economy from the bottom up is marginalised by the ruling class discourse.Perhaps you are doing the same to the youth in the streets this weekend? Im sure much of the violence is self indulgent, but im also sure that the majority involved want to create a better world, and are aiming for this.

If only more people in the UK had the anti-authoritarian spirit that many greeks have. I hope you are successful in making Greece into a fair and just country, and I hope that you provide an example of change, that can spread throughout Europe.

Anonymous wrote:

 you have the right to protest. no greek would deny you this. but there is legitimate protest and there's gratuitous violence...and i believe some of the 'protestors' are in themselves, getting off on the violence..not the protest..or even offering something to counter police brutality.

where is the political debate or discussion here? you can destroy a city..but what will you build in return?

i have marched at every Nov 17 march i've been able to in athens. i felt solidarity with all who uphold the right of safety and free speech/protest. i respect resistance when it knows what it is fighting against. this is democratic.

im finding it hard to trust the motives of a hand full of 'protestors' who have turned the 1 year memorial of Alexandros' murder..into an ugly and ignorant bout of 'fuck you'. rebels, quite literally, without a cause.

and they probably sneer at football hooligans as being 'apolitical' or 'stupid'.

so what's the difference?

 

 

 

All the problems start in the notion encapsulated in your phrase "legitimate protest" . What is a "legitimate protest"? You have to agree this changes according to those who make the rules, the governments. And "legitimate" is a different thing for each government. Was the occupation of the Polytechnic School in AThens during the dictatorship legitimate? No it wasn't. Would the junda of Papadopoulos have fallen without the "illegitimate" actions of the students in 1973? I don't think so. You seem to be in favour of the phrase of the mentally disturbed former Minister of Order and Safety, Polydoras, who said "whatever is legal is also ethical", meaning whatever is not legal in unethical. And meaning that laws such as legal immunity of members of the parliament who are criminals, is also ethical cause there is a law regarding it. Well, that's not always the case and we know it.

And my friend, the next time you demonstrate on a Nov 17 march, try going to another part of the march, the one with the "weird" looking kids. You'll find out for yourself that there is more than a handful of cops provoking and starting violence. But be careful. You might be arrested for nothing, just like the hundreds of people arrested these 3 days in Greece. You will very likely be beaten up also. And the worst part, is that you might find yourself facing criminal charges just because you chose to be in that part of the demo. See for yourself before you form an opinion based on mass media.

And for the record, it is a common secret that there are "hooders" smashing windows that come out of police vans.