CH wrote:

Nice to hear that wannabe-officers don't face having to be deployed to Afghanistan, it makes an interesting contrast with folk in the Territorial Army. You might even think that there's a class issue going on there.

Unemployed poor kids encouraged by unemployed rich kids to join the army. One lot faces death, the other gets to dress up, wave flags, and act solemn at the other lot's funeral.

Can't imagine why anybody might object to the Officer Training Corps...

Anonymous wrote:

There's also the fact that you demonstrated against a non deployable, zero obligation Army unit? The OTC don't even learn most of the tactics used in Afghanistan.

  It has nothing to do with class?! As long as they're going to university, they can join and last time I checked, you don't have to be a certain class to go to uni, just mildly intelligent. Also, the majority of people in the OTC don't actually want to join, and therefore wouldn't be classed as Wannabe-officers. And all the members of the OTC can join the real TA if they want, and in fact many of them do after a few years in the OTC. I also think you'll find that most members of the OTC take pains to make sure people do mistake them for real soldiers, but they still show their respect if a real soldier dies. I see nothing wrong with that.

Well done! Really good action and relatively simple, aside from the elephant (?)

More action needs to happen against the military, we can no longer hope every individual soldier refuses to fire their gun, or kill their officers amongst other useless rhetoric being used by the anti-war movement.

Good stuff.

They also faced disruption in Oxford:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/10/464315.html

...sending love and solidarity to anti-militarists everywhere!

While I support the OTC, it is a bad representation of control with regards to the rest of the Army. If you'd done this silly protest to a real unit I'd bet a lot of money that you would have got no reaction except for them to call the police and have you arrested for vandalism.

Grow up and protest to the people that would be able do something about it.

Interesting method of protest. I respect your right to disagree and indeed to protest. For example the elephant analogy was imaginative and I applaud your right to use it and make a stand for what you believe in.

However, I am slightly disgusted that you felt the need to vandalise another organisations efforts. You may disagree with the OTC, but that doesn't give you the right to try and vandalise them. These actions just discredit you as extremists and damage your cause. Most of the public you sought to convince would be horrified by that sort of action and will not support people who act outside of law and order. For that reason you are doomed to failure.

The OTC is a successful recruiter as it can demonstrate legitimacy (whether you agree or not), you cannot claim the same due to your methods and thus came off worse.

If you want to protest you need to attract the general public to the cause and that means acting in a way that society sees as acceptable, such as through open debate, peaceful protest and reasoned arguments. You must be seen to hold the moral high ground. Instead they currently hold it by claiming to sacrifice themselves for the community, while you are seen as the violent looneys.

Nice to hear that wannabe-officers don't face having to be deployed to Afghanistan, it makes an interesting contrast with folk in the Territorial Army. You might even think that there's a class issue going on there.

Unemployed poor kids encouraged by unemployed rich kids to join the army. One lot faces death, the other gets to dress up, wave flags, and act solemn at the other lot's funeral.

Can't imagine why anybody might object to the Officer Training Corps...

Anonymous wrote:

There's also the fact that you demonstrated against a non deployable, zero obligation Army unit? The OTC don't even learn most of the tactics used in Afghanistan.

I think you're wrong. Its politicians who decide when and why we go to war, the Soldiers just do their job.

There's also the fact that you demonstrated against a non deployable, zero obligation Army unit? The OTC don't even learn most of the tactics used in Afghanistan.

So well done for your massively high profile, very well targetted 'protest' there.

You clearly have no idea what is going on in Afghanistan! - if the British left there would be "peace".....absolutely clueless and it completely degrades your credibility. Hundreds of thousands of Afghani civilians killed!? Thats genocide you are talking about and I'd like to see where you get these figures from. People have quite rightly said it is not the soldiers to blame for the war in Afghanistan, but the politicians who send them there. You are clearly just a young person who want to rebel against everything because you think thats "cool".....utterly, utterly pathetic.

CH wrote:

 

Anonymous wrote:

 My apologies, for some reason the formatting on my above post did not publish as anticipated.  It is not a quote but my own view.  Hopefully below will publish without the quote marks.

I think you are somewhat missing the point here.  It is not relevant to the members of the University Officer Training Corps of today how the British army fared in the Second Afghan War of the 1870s, or indeed how the Russians mismanaged their occupation of the country in the 1980s.

The British Army are approaching the current war in Afghanistan with an entirely different objective and within an unprecedented framework to any previous action fought in the country.  While it is indisputable that lessons can and need to be drawn from the past, it is downright ignorant to compare the Russian occupation of Afghanistan with the NATO backed rebuilding programme which is taking place today under which the establishment of a stable and enduring democracy is an eventual aim.  It is regrettable for all involved, the Afghan civilians and the British soldiers themselves included, that lives must be lost in order to achieve this aim.  However, it is naive to believe that a withdrawal of foreign troops from Afghanistan would result in any other outcome than the Taliban slowly wresting control back from democratically elected bodies and the Afghan National Army which is working closely with NATO troops for the improvement of their own country. 

I have no doubt that if this situation were to occur you would be among the first to take an elephant to Afghanistan and protest against the re-imposition of sharia law under the Taliban as part of your unending search for peace and anti militarism.

Members of the Officer Training Corps, as has been rightly mentioned in other posts, are a non-deployable category B part of the Territorial Army.  Their mission statement is to promote leadership and development of individuals within a military framework.  Although many members do continue into a military career after graduation, there is no obligation to do so.  Furthermore, many of the skills and opportunities which can be gained through time with the OTC are widely recognised by civilian employers.  You seem to forget that your 'protest' was aimed not against soldiers of the regular army, but against other students like yourselves who may well have found a more rewarding and constructive way to spend their time than you have.  I agree that the OTC gives a greater insight into the manner in which the conflict in Afghanistan is being fought and it is a shame that this information is not made available to a wider audience in the press and media as much of it is in no way classified.  Greater understanding among the public of what British troops are actually doing in Afghanistan may well change some of these destructive misconceptions about our Army and hopefully avert grossly misplaced and mismanaged demonstrations such as these.

I respect the right of anyone to disagree with the war in Afghanistan, as is their democratic right, but feel there are more mature and constructive ways in which to get your voice heard.  Your protest was not undertaken in the right manner and unfortunately demonstrates only ignorance on the part of your supporters.  The British soldiers who have made the ultimate sacrifice are merely doing their job, they are not fighting for any political cause and deserve to be respected, whatever your political orientation.

 

Not my protest, I'm not a student. The OTC remain despicable hypocrites promoting a war they won't have to die in. This year's reasoning for this decade's Afghan adventure (soon to be in its 2nd decade) remains hollow, illogical and dishonest. Rebuilding Afghanistan with bombs. Promoting democracy with military force.

But yeah. This war is different from the last one. This is the war to end all wars. Oh wait, did we use that slogan before? Maybe try "Your Country Needs You" ?

 

To the protester,

The arguments you are publishing are what are known in academic circles as "straw man" arguments. They do not respond to the points raised or shed any further light on the issues. You have failed to adequately explain why your protest against the Afghan war was launched against a student organisation that has no part in the war and certainly does not "promote" it.  I respect your right to protest against a war, however I beleive your method of doing so is not only illogical but also immature as it aimed only to provoke reaction rather than anything more constructive. Rhetoric such as "this is the war to end all wars" actually suggests you are inciting violence and shows little concern for civillians caught up in the conflict. I suggest you find a more suitable venue for your political angst.